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Cut-Throat
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 99
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 Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:17 pm Post subject: Went through 'Living Trust' Program - No Link to State! |
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I went through the Living Trust Procedure with a leading Law Firm in this state, specializing in this area. I handed over thousands of Dollars for about 25 pounds of paper and countless re-arranging of my assets.
I was amazed that at the end of this process, that there is no document filed with the state indicating where your living will and estate documents are located. I kept asking this question to the lawyer and he kept answering with lame statements like. "Just tell your heirs that the documents are with me" or in "your files".
I'm sorry, but this is just plain stupid! - When you are born, the state issues a Birth certificate, when you get married they issue a marriage certificate. When you buy a car, it's licensed with the state. A home has a title. Heck I even have to buy a fishing license every year.
But the last will and testament, that everyone says is an important document, just fill out some paper and stuff it in a drawer. You don't need to tell the state about it - Someone will find it ! Give me a Fucking Break.... This legal system needs changing! |
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sgeeeee
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Posts: 462
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:10 am Post subject: |
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Yep. And attorneys like it that way. They can get paid again when you die if your heirs use them to get a copy. That's why I talked about the Letter of Instruction everyone needs to create in Engineering Your Retirement. You can download a copy of the letter template at:
http://www.golio.net/Chapter4.html
Check at the bottom of Section 4.4.
=============================================
http://www.golio.net
Instructions in the Event of Our Deaths or Incapacitation
Updated:_____________________
Our social security numbers are: you:__________ and spouse:__________
We have the following checking accounts and savings accounts:
Bank_________ Account type__________Account #__________
Bank_________ Account type__________Account #__________
We have the following insurance policies:
Health Insurance: Company, policy #, agent, premium
Long-term-care insurance: Company, policy #, agent, premium
Life insurance: Company, policy #, agent, premium
Home insurance: Company, policy #, agent, premium
Auto insurance: Company, policy #, agent, premium
Other insurance: Company, policy #, agent, premium
The location of critical documents:
Our wills (location and attorney information, who has copies)
Other legal documents such as POAs (location, who has copies)
Life insurance policy (location)
Long-term-care policy (location)
Home insurance (location)
Auto insurance (location)
Auto title/deed/registration (location)
Pension information (location)
Financial account information (software and paper record locations)
Abstract/Deed for house (location)
Income tax records (software and paper record locations)
Make sure that the following bills are paid:
Medical insurance premium (payment details, date due, amount due, accounts where automatic payments are taken from, etc.)
Property taxes(dates of tax bills)
Home insurance (dates of policy renewal)
Other insurance, or recurring expenses that must be maintained
Other debts (mortgage, car loans, etc) (dates of bills, institution details)
Regular expenses
We have a safe deposit box: key location, number, bank location, . . .
We have a safe in the house: location, combination, . . .
We have a post office box for some mail delivery: POBox #, information
We have a storage locker: location, number, key location, . . .
We have additional assets we keep at: details
We have the following investment & retirement accounts:
Company/Broker______ Account type______Account # ________ Approximate Total_____
Company/Broker______ Account type______Account #________ Approximate Total_____
Information about other assets
House (owned free and clear or mortgage information)
Autos (owned or car loan)
Credit Cards: number________ bank or institution______
The following people/institutions owe us money
List with details
We have made the following arrangements or have the following wishes in case of our deaths
Cemetery plots: location & details
Funeral arrangements: preferences, spending desires, . . .
If possible, we would like you to use the assets you inherit to pay for the following items as your first priority:
Pay for children’s college (list children still in college and any directions)
Charity contributions (list desired charity and amount or percentage that should be donated)
Other spending desires
You should contact the following friends and family:
List friends, relatives and contact information
_________________
-=sgeeeee=- |
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admin
Site Admin
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 138
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:05 am Post subject: Re: Went through 'Living Trust' Program - No Link to State! |
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| Cut-Throat wrote: | I went through the Living Trust Procedure with a leading Law Firm in this state, specializing in this area. I handed over thousands of Dollars for about 25 pounds of paper and countless re-arranging of my assets.
I was amazed that at the end of this process, that there is no document filed with the state indicating where your living will and estate documents are located. I kept asking this question to the lawyer and he kept answering with lame statements like. "Just tell your heirs that the documents are with me" or in "your files".
I'm sorry, but this is just plain stupid! - When you are born, the state issues a Birth certificate, when you get married they issue a marriage certificate. When you buy a car, it's licensed with the state. A home has a title. Heck I even have to buy a fishing license every year.
But the last will and testament, that everyone says is an important document, just fill out some paper and stuff it in a drawer. You don't need to tell the state about it - Someone will find it ! Give me a Fucking Break.... This legal system needs changing! |
Isn't the whole reason for doing a living trust to keep your estate out of the probate court system? Why would you want to "file" something with them?
intercst |
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martha
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Yup, that is the way it is. No trust documents are filed in Minnesota.
Typically, people give a copy of the trust to the successor trustee and tell them where the original trust docs are located, often with the lawyer.
The person who has powers under the health care directive should have access to originals.
As Intercst says, part of the reason is to keep things out of the public eye.
How are you guys! SG, I am going to be going be in Arizona in late March, birding with my sister down south of Tucson. Bring me some warm weather. But not too warm.  |
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sgeeeee
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Posts: 462
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| martha wrote: |
How are you guys! SG, I am going to be going be in Arizona in late March, birding with my sister down south of Tucson. Bring me some warm weather. But not too warm. |
March can be anything (warm or cold, damp or dry) in AZ, but probably not too warm. Just hope you don't get the kind of weather we've been having for the past week or so -- cold, rain, and wind. We've already got about 1/2 of our normal annual rainfall.
I've been doing some archaeology work south of Tucson. There's lots and lots of immigration control and drug enforcement going on down there.
_________________
-=sgeeeee=- |
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dab90south
Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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setting up a trust is one thing, keeps your affairs out of the probate office among other things.
next step is to title your assets into the trust.
then doing asset allocation is a whole different discussion, and does not hinge on a trust being created. |
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martha
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Roughly where are you? Last winter I was down in the Rio Grande valley so I am used to immigration control, more or less.
| sgeeeee wrote: |
March can be anything (warm or cold, damp or dry) in AZ, but probably not too warm. Just hope you don't get the kind of weather we've been having for the past week or so -- cold, rain, and wind. We've already got about 1/2 of our normal annual rainfall.
I've been doing some archaeology work south of Tucson. There's lots and lots of immigration control and drug enforcement going on down there. |
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Cut-Throat
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Went through 'Living Trust' Program - No Link to State! |
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| admin wrote: |
Isn't the whole reason for doing a living trust to keep your estate out of the probate court system? Why would you want to "file" something with them?
intercst |
Yup! -- Keep it out of the probate system, But at least file something with State indicating who is the Executor of the Estate and where the documents are. Personal Possessions are not in a "Trust Account", just financial assets. There is a large HOLE in the system. And I agree with SGee, the Fricken Lawyers want it that way. Name some other important legal document that does not have an offical record of filing? |
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Cut-Throat
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| martha wrote: | Yup, that is the way it is. No trust documents are filed in Minnesota.
Typically, people give a copy of the trust to the successor trustee and tell them where the original trust docs are located, often with the lawyer.
The person who has powers under the health care directive should have access to originals.
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That's the problem ! - Notice your language.
"Typically.......and tell them where the original trust docs are located, often with the lawyer." "........should have access to originals."
"Typically", "tell them", "often", "should have"
What kind of Bullshit is this ? - Why isn't this information documented like a Title to a piece of property?
No Excuse - This is a pure shoddy practice that should not be defended, it should be fixed! |
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sgeeeee
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Posts: 462
Location: Mesa, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| martha wrote: | Roughly where are you? Last winter I was down in the Rio Grande valley so I am used to immigration control, more or less.
| sgeeeee wrote: |
March can be anything (warm or cold, damp or dry) in AZ, but probably not too warm. Just hope you don't get the kind of weather we've been having for the past week or so -- cold, rain, and wind. We've already got about 1/2 of our normal annual rainfall.
I've been doing some archaeology work south of Tucson. There's lots and lots of immigration control and drug enforcement going on down there. |
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I've been working with an archaeologist who is trying to identify sites that early Spanish explorers wrote about. We've covered territory from Nogales all the way east into New Mexico. Our explorations into fairly isolated areas gets attention from helicopter flyovers and we get stopped at highway check points more and more often. We've also been around in time to see a couple of major drug busts. There is a lot more law enforcement/immigration activity down there than there was a few years ago. We often pass bands of migrating immigrants or stumble across coyote drop points when we get into isolated areas.
_________________
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martha
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| Cut-Throat wrote: | | martha wrote: | Yup, that is the way it is. No trust documents are filed in Minnesota.
Typically, people give a copy of the trust to the successor trustee and tell them where the original trust docs are located, often with the lawyer.
The person who has powers under the health care directive should have access to originals.
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That's the problem ! - Notice your language.
"Typically.......and tell them where the original trust docs are located, often with the lawyer." "........should have access to originals."
"Typically", "tell them", "often", "should have"
What kind of Bullshit is this ? - Why isn't this information documented like a Title to a piece of property?
No Excuse - This is a pure shoddy practice that should not be defended, it should be fixed! |
I think it isn't done any different from the way it is because no one cares and there hasn't been enough of a perceived problem for anyone to do anything. I don't think that the lawyers "want it that way." It just hasn't been on anyone's radar.
You're retired! Lobby for a trust registry. |
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martha
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| sgeeeee wrote: | | martha wrote: | Roughly where are you? Last winter I was down in the Rio Grande valley so I am used to immigration control, more or less.
| sgeeeee wrote: |
March can be anything (warm or cold, damp or dry) in AZ, but probably not too warm. Just hope you don't get the kind of weather we've been having for the past week or so -- cold, rain, and wind. We've already got about 1/2 of our normal annual rainfall.
I've been doing some archaeology work south of Tucson. There's lots and lots of immigration control and drug enforcement going on down there. |
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I've been working with an archaeologist who is trying to identify sites that early Spanish explorers wrote about. We've covered territory from Nogales all the way east into New Mexico. Our explorations into fairly isolated areas gets attention from helicopter flyovers and we get stopped at highway check points more and more often. We've also been around in time to see a couple of major drug busts. There is a lot more law enforcement/immigration activity down there than there was a few years ago. We often pass bands of migrating immigrants or stumble across coyote drop points when we get into isolated areas. |
Wonder when the activity picked up.
Be careful out there. |
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dab90south
Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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a trust is a private arrangement you make for your benefit. you do not file copies of contracts to build an addition (you do file plans, but not the actual contract) to your house, you do not file copies of contracts to have a new roof installed....
trusts were designed to stay out of the public eye. if you want to mail a copy to the courthouse, that's your business, but does not accomplish anything.
if you don't understand the purpose of a trust, then stay away from them or learn.
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Cut-Throat
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| dab90south wrote: | a trust is a private arrangement you make for your benefit. you do not file copies of contracts to build an addition (you do file plans, but not the actual contract) to your house, you do not file copies of contracts to have a new roof installed....
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Sure you do! - It's called a building Permit! And it indicates that you re-roofed and the date of the job. It also has to be inspected when the job is complete. I just had my roof done a couple years ago - See attached Building Permit that is on File and it is a Public Record.
I'm just surprised that wills and trusts aren't registered with the state. Everything other important document is. This does not have be a detailed document that is in the public eye. But, enough that wills are not contested. You have heard of wills being contested?
I think you're the one that needs to learn. I have already have a living trust. -
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dab90south
Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 28
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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easy there....
what purpose would be served by filing a trust?
a will is filed after you are dead by your executor, and serves to ensure that anyone with claims on your estate get paid, and that your assets are distributed per your wishes.
if you have a trust, you also have a will (and if you don't, the state will fill one out for you), and the will still gets filed, and should say that all assets are in a trust (which is not filed). one purpose of a trust is to keep things out of the public eye. if you file it, that purpose is defeated.
as for getting a roof replaced, if your locality requires a permit, ok, you get a permit, but the details of how much you paid are not a matter of public record, just who did the work. |
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